Inside HCCA’s Compliance Institute and HEALTHCON 2026

Conference season is more than a calendar event for compliance professionals. It is where priorities start to take shape, where regulators share direction, and where organizations get an early look at what will matter most in the months ahead.

And for compliance officers and auditors, those signals matter.

In a recent episode of Compliance Conversations, CJ Wolf sits down with Brian Burton to break down what to expect from two of the industry’s most influential events—HCCA’s Compliance Institute and AAPC’s HEALTHCON—and what those events reveal about where compliance is headed next.

Why This Conversation Matters Right Now

Between evolving regulatory expectations, the growing role of AI, and increasing pressure to demonstrate program effectiveness, the environment is becoming more complex. Conferences have always been a place to learn—but more importantly, they are a place to listen.

Because what shows up in sessions, panels, and regulator discussions is rarely random. It reflects where scrutiny is increasing and where expectations are shifting.

That is why events like HCCA and HEALTHCON continue to matter. They bring together regulators, auditors, compliance leaders, and legal experts in one place—and in doing so, create a clearer picture of what organizations should be preparing for.

As discussed in the episode, hearing directly from agencies like OIG, CMS, and OCR is one of the most valuable aspects of these events. It provides insight not just into current expectations, but into how enforcement and guidance may evolve.

What to Watch This Conference Season

One of the key themes in this discussion is that compliance professionals should not approach conferences passively.

The value is not just in attending sessions. It is in identifying patterns.

• Where are regulators focusing their attention?
• What topics are being repeated across sessions?
• Where are organizations still struggling operationally?
• Refine audit plans
• Adjust compliance priorities
• Strengthen operational processes
• Align teams around current risks

Several areas stand out heading into this year’s events:

1. Regulatory Presence and Direction

There is renewed interest in hearing directly from regulators. When agencies participate more actively, it often signals increased alignment, clarification, or upcoming focus areas.

For compliance teams, this is an opportunity to validate whether their current approach aligns with regulatory expectations—or where adjustments may be needed.

2. AI and Emerging Risk

Artificial intelligence continues to reshape healthcare operations. But with that comes new compliance questions around data use, documentation, and oversight.

The conversation highlights a key point: the rules themselves may not be fundamentally broken—but how organizations manage new risks within those frameworks is where the real challenge lies.

3. Moving from Reactive to Proactive Auditing

One of the most practical insights from the episode is the need to rethink how audits are planned and executed.

Too many organizations remain reactive. Audits are triggered by issues, not guided by strategy.

Brian Burton introduces a different approach—applying project management principles to auditing. This includes defining scope, setting expectations, and managing audits as structured initiatives rather than open-ended tasks.

That shift matters. Because without structure, audits can expand beyond scope, lose efficiency, and fail to drive meaningful outcomes.

4. Integration Across the Compliance Program

Auditing does not exist in isolation.

Findings should connect to training, policy updates, and corrective actions. Dashboards and reporting should not just document activity—they should help identify trends and inform decisions.

This is where many programs still fall short. Not in identifying issues, but in connecting the dots between what is found and what is done next.

The Bigger Takeaway: Insight Is Only Valuable If It’s Applied

One of the most important themes in this episode is simple:

Most organizations attend conferences. Fewer translate what they learn into action.

That gap is where opportunity exists.

The real value of conference season is not the content itself. It is how that content is used to:

Without that step, insights remain theoretical. With it, they become part of a stronger, more effective compliance program.

What This Means for Your Program

Whether you are attending HCCA, HEALTHCON, or following from a distance, the takeaway is the same:

Pay attention to the signals. Look for patterns. And most importantly, ask how those insights translate into your organization’s day-to-day operations.

Because compliance is not shaped once a year. It is shaped continuously by how well organizations respond to what they are seeing in real time.

And if your program is still reactive, still siloed, or still struggling to operationalize insights into action, this is exactly the kind of moment to reassess.

Episode Chapters & Transcript

00:00 – Welcome and Episode Overview
CJ and Brian introduce the episode and set the stage for a conversation focused on conference season, upcoming events, and why they matter for compliance professionals.

01:20 – Why Conferences Still Matter
A discussion on the value of staying current in a constantly evolving compliance landscape—and why conferences remain one of the most effective ways to do that.

02:50 – HCCA Compliance Institute Preview
A look at what to expect from HCCA, including the importance of regulator presence and the opportunity to hear directly from agencies like OIG, CMS, and OCR.

04:30 – Regulatory Trends and What to Watch
Insights into potential updates, including OIG guidance, enforcement priorities, and how compliance teams can interpret early signals from regulators.

06:40 – AI, Security, and Emerging Risks
A conversation around artificial intelligence, evolving security considerations, and how compliance programs must adapt to new operational realities.

10:45 – HEALTHCON Preview and Key Sessions
An overview of HEALTHCON, including session formats, learning opportunities, and what makes the event valuable for auditors and compliance professionals.

12:30 – Making Audits More Proactive
Brian introduces the idea of applying project management principles to auditing—helping organizations move from reactive audits to more structured, strategic programs.

15:00 – Project Management Meets Auditing
A deeper dive into concepts like project charters, defined scope, and managing audit timelines to improve efficiency and outcomes.

18:00 – Avoiding Scope Creep and Improving Focus
Why clearly defining what an audit is—and what it is not—can help teams avoid inefficiencies and maintain focus.

22:00 – The Role of Training, Reporting, and Dashboards
How audit findings should connect to broader compliance efforts, including training, policy updates, and performance tracking through dashboards.

25:00 – Final Thoughts and Conference Takeaways
Closing reflections on the value of conference participation and an invitation to connect with the Healthicity team during the events.

CJ Wolf: 00:00

Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Compliance Conversations. I'm CJ Wolf with Healthicity, and we have another expert from Healthicity, Brian Burton. Welcome, Brian.

Brian Burton: 00:13

Good morning, CJ. It's morning when we're recording this. It's good to have everyone today. Hopefully, uh, we have a little bit of a surprise for you. We're going to talk about some conferences that are coming up and and maybe some of our presentations and what our expectations are for the the conference season that's approaching.

CJ Wolf: 00:33

Yeah, exactly. Brian, I I know you've been we've been together on the show before. Do you want to just briefly tell us a little bit about yourself or you feel comfortable just moving into the topic?

Brian Burton: 00:44

Sure. Well, I my name is Brian. For those who haven't heard our podcast before, and I have the opportunity to help manage our compliance program here at Healthicity. Um it's a fantastic uh opportunity to engage directly with our clients, help them manage their compliance programs. And it's one of the things that I love about compliance is in helping our clients serve the patients in their communities.

CJ Wolf: 01:11

Yeah, and one of the ways that we do that, and I know a lot of our listeners do that, is we try to stay up to date on things. And a great way to do it is conferences. And so uh we thought we'd just chat a little bit about um two conferences, uh HCCA, the Healthcare Compliance Association, their compliance institute, uh in Orlando, end of April. And um, and then we'll talk a little bit about HealthCon, which is AAPC's uh big national conference, which will be in Dallas at the beginning of May.

Brian Burton: 01:42

So um And we go to both, right? Back back to back weeks of travel. Um, I think you and I are planning on uh I think you have a presentation at HCC8, right?

CJ Wolf: 01:54

Yeah, yeah. So and we're we're both gonna be at both, and I wanted to let everyone know that Pelphicity will have a presence uh in the in the um vendor area, right? Um so you'll have a booth and hope that you come by. Uh it sounds like you might have some fun swag and a few surprises. So hope everyone will stop by and visit the booth.

Brian Burton: 02:14

Yeah, absolutely. We um we always enjoy interacting with prospective clients and our current clients, especially if you happen to be a current client of ours, come by and say hello to us. We would love to talk more about your story and how you're using the solutions that we offer and and how we might be able to help you with other things.

CJ Wolf: 02:34

Yeah, absolutely. And I know a lot of people listen to the webinars and things too. And so uh, if you're not really familiar with what Healthicity offers, it's a great opportunity to talk to the experts, look at the products and get demos and that sort of thing. So uh hope to see you there. Uh so Brian, should we maybe talk about HCCA first since that's coming up first? Absolutely.

Brian Burton: 02:55

It's uh what April 27th through the 30th. Um, and it's the 30th um compliance institute, right? Isn't that crazy? Yeah, I was thinking back, I I can't remember the exact number, but it's been gosh, I don't know, 12, 12 years or 13, 14 years ago since I attended the compliance institute and and achieved the the certified in healthcare compliance. Um it's been a long time. I can't remember the exact number, but uh it was an established conference at that time, but we have boy, has it grown so much over the last you know 15, 20 years.

CJ Wolf: 03:33

Exactly. I always love going because you hear from so many different people. And one of the things that I enjoy about this profession is there's always changes, and so that kind of keeps things fresh. We you know, we were chatting a little bit before we started about um maybe anticipating what the government presence might be. You know, we've seen in recent past years where there weren't a lot of attendees from either CMS or OIG, et cetera. Um, but I I in looking at the agenda, it looks like there may be a few more this year than in the past. What what have you thought and and what do you think the value is of that?

Brian Burton: 04:08

Well, I I think it's it's instrumental for us to hear directly from the regulators. Um it is it's always one of the one of the highlights of the conference is to interact directly, hear directly from the uh from the regulator uh leadership teams, what their emphasis are, how they how they're supporting us. And that's one of the one of the things that I've really enjoyed, regardless of who's who who who's leading the current executive branch. I think what we what we typically find is that they're there supporting us. They know compliance professionals are there to help manage the compliance programs within our organizations, and they're they're there to support us in that effort and to give us some insights on what trends are they identifying and how can we help and integrate those trends into our compliance work plans.

CJ Wolf: 05:02

Yeah, and I always have my fingers crossed that you know, you and I are always looking at these uh the new OIG guidance documents. We we've had some webinars recently on the the new ICPG for Medicare Advantage. They have this little OIG has this list of a couple others that they anticipate releasing. They took away the dates that they said they were going to release them, so now it's kind of open-ended, but I'm always crossing my fingers that they'll surprise us and maybe announce something with one of the new ICPGs. I don't know, not holding my breath, but we'll see.

Brian Burton: 05:36

Agreed, right? And you know, historically speaking, the this conference has been a catalyst for launching those in the past. Not just the not just the most recent, or not the most recent, but the the the 2023 guidance document was released at a DOJ conference. And we have, you know, we'll see other elements of those those things. And what I'm really curious about is, you know, will we hear directly from the OCR? Um, will we get a direct update on the proposed final rule that's kind of been lingering since the since the change in administration? Um I I have said before that I think you the proposed final rule is is fantastic, but it's n has not been adopted yet. Um but there's been so much time to go by. Will we go back into another comment period? Um the advent of artificial intelligence within the within the healthcare industry is certainly making some changes. Um, but at the same time, the security rule itself is is not flawed, right? It can it be improved? Absolutely. And should we be moder uh modifying and monitoring the controls that we have? Absolutely. But the law itself is not flawed, in my opinion. But how we respond and manage the new risks is what we what we need to keep our finger on the pulse.

CJ Wolf: 07:08

Absolutely. Um uh the other thing is um I was wondering um, you know, sometimes we hear from CMS as well. Um, I'm trying to remember at the last one. I think Kim Brandt may have spoken or may have been two prior. I can't I can't remember. I I don't recall if she's on the list again or not, but you know, sometimes we also hear from CMS in addition to OIG or or DOJ, like you said, and then OCR, of course, all the really and sometimes we hear from states, right? Like I've been there where like the New York state um OIG or uh or people that are involved in different state offices in some of the larger populated states, you'll sometimes have some good state government reps.

Brian Burton: 07:51

Yeah, and and our our friends on the legal side of the compliance fence, right? Many presentations will include former um former OIG attorneys that are now in commercial practice uh and and providing their insights with a little more leeway to uh to describe details. Uh so those are always compelling events, is when we can when we can attend the sessions that have former regulators um who are now speaking on behalf of their law practices.

CJ Wolf: 08:26

Yeah. So I I'm gonna be on a panel, and one of the individuals on the panel um is a for so he's in private practice for a defense firm now, but he was uh a US attorney um under the DOJ and had prosecuted, you know, false claims act cases, those sorts of things that a lot of us are are aware of. And so um like I I always enjoy hearing from him. Our our sessions on um kind of enforcement trends in the physician space, um all sorts of things, anti-kickbacks, dark, uh coding, documentation, just kind of free for all with with a few of us. So looking forward to to being a part of that and and uh should be fun.

Brian Burton: 09:11

Yeah, that'll be fun. I can't wait to attend. I I promise to throw you a hardball question. No, softballs, please.

CJ Wolf: 09:20

I'll send you the questions to ask. Okay, that sounds fair. No, I won't, but you know, it's fun. Um any other thoughts on on HCCA that that you wanted to share? Or do you think about?

Brian Burton: 09:33

The the final parting thought is uh love it when it's in Florida, right? I think if yes, when I attended uh the compliance institute as a new compliance professional, um it was it was at Universal. Um again, I can't remember the exact year at this right now, but it was a long time ago. Um, but it's always a lot of fun to go to the, you know, I guess that's mid mid mid-south Florida. It's gonna be warmer, the weather's gonna be nice. Um you know, if you can extend your stay and visit some of the parks and and enjoy the atmosphere, it's always uh an enlightening um place to go visit and work hard all day and and have a little fun in the evening.

CJ Wolf: 10:19

Totally agree. And so it's you know, sometimes when we're in Orlando, it's kind of the Disney parks. This one, like you said, is Universal, and Universal has a new park, right? That opened up last year in May or something like that. So um I think a lot of there's a lot of buzz around that one. So it will be really cool. Well, good. Uh let's let's take a quick break, everyone. Uh, and then we'll come back and we're gonna talk a little bit about HealthCon. Welcome back from the break, everybody. Um Brian and I have been talking about conferences and and the other conference that that we're both gonna be at is uh HealthCon. And HealthCon is in Dallas, right? Um, and kind of earlier May, I want to say May 3 through 6 or something like that.

Brian Burton: 11:02

Yep.

CJ Wolf: 11:03

Um lots of great things at HealthCon as well. And again, Health City will have a booth there. And uh Brian, you're speaking at HealthCon, right?

Brian Burton: 11:12

I am. Uh it's my first time attending HealthCon. Uh for those who in the audience who who may be familiar with my career, I'm not a clinician or an auditor, um, which is why we we we leverage CJ's expertise in a lot of areas here. Um but it's my first opportunity. I'm super excited. Haven't been to Dallas in quite some time. Uh, but um we'll have a booth. And this is it's been a few years that these two conferences have overlapped and coexisted. Um, and so now that they're a week apart, I I'm planning on attending both and have the pleasure and honor of having a presentation. Um, I I thought about this. The the idea for my presentation came from experience at previous healthcare systems where we always seemed to struggle in being reactive to audits rather than proactively planning them. And and for me as a career, uh, before I made my way into compliance through a happenstance, uh I was a project management professional and certified through the project management institute and so have managed numerous multi-million dollar projects. Um and so one of the one of the key attributes that I I enjoy about working in compliance is bringing some of those skills and talents from project management into the compliance world. Uh, and the presentation that we have and going into a little more detail than our abstract that might be on the ad uh on the ad. Um, the goal is for us to uh help identify some project management techniques that that a common layperson who's not a certified project manager can identify some terminology and some and some specific uh practical takeaways that we can use. Um many many organizations these days have full-time project managers that are dedicated project management professionals. Uh and so the the idea in this presentation is to give the audience and the participants an opportunity to understand some of that project management terminology, how it applies to auditing and monitoring. And really the big takeaway is we have an exercise at the end of the presentation where we'll create a project charter that will help define the scope and the time frame and the resources that we need to effectively manage an audit.

CJ Wolf: 13:34

I love it. You know, I've worked in a lot of different organizations, and whenever we've had kind of full-time project managers, so they might not be a subject matter expert, but they are so good at making the project run so well. And it always surprises me how come we all don't have project managers because they, you know, when they do things over and over and over again, they know efficiencies, they know where roadblocks are, they know where bottlenecks are. And and those are all agnostic of what the subject is, right? And so I love working with a really skilled project manager because it always goes better.

Brian Burton: 14:12

And and it's really interesting, I think the methodology that PMI uses, and it has evolved over the last 20 years, but you know, it still breaks down to the five phases of project management: initiating, planning, executing, monitoring, and controlling and closing the project. Um, and where where we really overlap, this works well in audit. When we apply those five phases of project management to developing and creating and executing an audit, they align really well. Um, and so the the goal here for us is to talk about what is a work break work breakdown structure. What does that really mean? That might be a new phrase to some compliance and audit professionals, um, and understanding how that works and how to how to maximize the use of a Gantt chart. Um, and then ultimately how to how to leverage the skills and techniques of the of the project managers that we might interact with to get better outcomes of our audits.

CJ Wolf: 15:07

Yeah, absolutely. Um, so that that'll be a lot of fun. Um are you speaking alone? Yes. Yeah, okay, cool. But that'd be good. And do you remember, is it a I'm trying to remember, do we have different times? Are they like one hour, one hour, 15 minutes? Maybe they're all the same.

Brian Burton: 15:24

This one is uh it's Sunday afternoon uh on May 3rd. Uh, and then it's a 90-minute session where we'll have we'll have about 45 minutes of what is project management, and then we'll break out into work groups and and draft a project charter um for a prospective audit that we might have in our organizations where we'll we'll walk around and and interact and get into small groups of four to five and and really collaborate on what is a project charter and how can we use these to enable our uh to enable more efficiency within our audits.

CJ Wolf: 16:01

That's that's amazing. You know, I I know I I don't know if this is true, but it's what I've observed is that you know, smaller organizations sometimes don't have the resources to like hire a full-time project manager. And so if you're from a smaller organization, you might be an office manager, you might be the director of compliance or director of audit, and you're doing projects. And so I think these skills are going to be transferable to people who might not be a full-time project manager, but can apply these in work that they're doing big and small.

Brian Burton: 16:30

Yep. And that's the that's the primary goal is to start with a project charter. Um, and that way you can effectively communicate with all the stakeholders within your organization. What is the expectation? What is the outcome of this audit? And regardless of whether or not we quote passed or failed the audit, what is the scope? What are the resources and how much time is it going to take for us to complete it? And starting with that charter really helps uh set the expectations for all parties who are involved.

CJ Wolf: 17:03

And I think those are really important because not only is it important to say what it is, it's important to say what it this project or audit is not going to be. Right. So that you kind of it helps manage expectations of look, we're not, we're not recreating the wheel. I mean, we're not recreating or developing something brand new. We have a defined scope, and we're gonna stay within that scope, we're not gonna go outside of it.

Brian Burton: 17:27

Yeah, it's it's funny you describe it that way. It's almost like you're a professional project manager, because the definition of a project is a activity that has a defined set of deliverables with a definitive start and a definitive end, right? And if you don't, if you to your point, if you don't put some uh constraints around what we call scope creep from a project management perspective, right, the the project will never end, right? And then now you don't have a project, but you have an operational task to manage. And there's a distinction there, right? We want to audits are are inevitably designed to have a you know, what is the what are we auditing and when will it end, and how will we manage the response?

CJ Wolf: 18:14

Yep. Yeah, because I've seen in audits where you get creep and you get inevitably when you're auditing one task, you might identify uh anecdotally other things that you know might raise a flag or something, but that's not within your scope. There's a proper way to deal with that of maybe making note of it, right? Saying these are things to consider in the future. So these are incidental findings that we noted, but it's outside of our scope. So we are mentioning it here, those kinds of things, right?

Brian Burton: 18:46

Yeah. So that's enough about my presentation. Are you presenting at HealthCon?

CJ Wolf: 18:52

I am. I've got a couple, and um, one of them is on evaluation and management, um, coding, uh, medical decision making. And we're gonna do a case study approach where we'll have different um kind of patient encounters uh and should be a lot of fun. So it's it's gonna kind of like what you're doing, where you're gonna have uh a little bit of knowledge and then now you're gonna share knowledge, and then you're going to do some sort of activity or workshop or come away with something. And so that's kind of what I'm hoping to have with the one session. And then uh the other one I'm doing, it'll be the first time I've done this. They always have an anatomy expo at um at HealthCon. And again, it's the first time I've been involved in it, so I don't want to pretend I know all the details, but it was described to me as they invite, you know, six or seven clinicians and they each pick an anatomical topic. Um, and then they do 20-minute sessions and then the groups rotate. So that's the expo, if you will. And I and so I'm gonna be doing um kind of neurology, brain and stroke type of anatomy and things that go along with that. And so um should be really fun. I've never done that one before.

Brian Burton: 20:07

So that sounds like if I if I were a clinician, I would I would subscribe to that session wholeheartedly.

CJ Wolf: 20:17

Yeah, I mean, some of the other uh docs that and and clinicians that are there have look like they have really interesting topics, so should be should be a lot of fun.

Brian Burton: 20:26

And I'm I'm I'm guessing that will translate to how we uh how that translates to medical decision making and charting.

CJ Wolf: 20:34

Exactly, and and coding. So, you know, when um when you're coding for certain neurosurgery procedures, understanding the anatomy, where did the injury take place, where is the intervention taking place, um, you know, what devices might you use, those sorts of things. Because, you know, if you're a coder and you haven't done neurosurgery coding before, you start reading these operative reports and you might be like, what is going on? I don't even understand what they're saying, right? And so the intent is to, you know, help people feel more comfortable in that space, um, so they don't feel like they're a deer in the headlights when they're reading or talking to, you know, clinicians and just try to, you know, make that a little bit more of a comfortable activity for people.

Brian Burton: 21:20

So I imagine it's gonna be a lot of fun.

CJ Wolf: 21:25

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, our colleague Debbie um is also gonna be speaking at HealthCon, right?

Brian Burton: 21:32

Yes, absolutely.

CJ Wolf: 21:34

And I I don't remember the exact details. I don't know if you either do either, but Debbie's an expert in uh in auditing and she works very closely uh with the audit manager um product, right?

Brian Burton: 21:47

Correct. And we'll and and we will have uh the ability at our booth to show demonstrations of how audit manager works within your organization and give uh give your team an idea of how. how you can take a defined audit from a charter that we've written and then and then can build and define an audit and use audit manager to conduct the audit.

CJ Wolf: 22:14

Cool. Yeah. It looks like I've got a little note from our our uh wonderful support Sarah. Uh Debbie's oh sorry I just left it Debbie's session is getting acquainted with dashboards and reports a beginner's guide for auditors on May 4th at 245 75 minutes. That sounds awesome.

Brian Burton: 22:39

Yeah it it you know reporting is such an essential aspect of what we do and we'll see that in in my presentation too as we get to the project closure aspect taking the reports the outputs making good sound decisions on what are the next steps you know if we identify an overpayment what is the process to go through you know how do we make sure we're refunding that overpayment within the 60 days um and then also you know when we have underpayments what is the what are the corrective actions can we rebuild the claim right it is not just about identifying money owed but making sure we're accurate and we're collecting as much as we have earned uh through the process right so Debbie's Debbie's expertise there in using audit manager and the reporting dashboards that we have and inherent in our solutions um I imagine will be great benefit to a lot of people.

CJ Wolf: 23:37

Yeah that's such a great point you know I've done so many audits now and and I almost always find some sort of opportunity right like somebody wasn't aware oh there's an add-on code or oh did you know there's a modifier to help in this situation and it might appropriately lead to more revenue right so not trying to gain the system but just trying to do it right in both directions right you don't want to overdo it you don't want to underdo it either you deserve uh to be paid for what you do and and um so yeah and dashboards I think are really important for auditing groups that are doing a lot of audits um and then you're repeating those audits in some sort of cycle because then you know let's say you you do neurology psychiatry and neurosurgery in quarter one in quarter two you do primary all the primary care specialties quarter three right and then you repeat that maybe in a year and then your dashboards can help you kind of trend things see how people are improving where people need additional education and training because as we all know a good compliance program right auditing and monitoring is one element but the elements should not be thought of as in silos. They should be thought of as working together right so if you've identified something in an audit corrective action might be training it might be a new policy it might be um you know holding somebody accountable so all those different elements in the compliance program and so dashboards can kind of help you identify and keep track of those things. So that should be a great session too.

Brian Burton: 25:08

Well CJ this has been so much fun it's always good to sit down with you and talk about the things that are that are coming forward are coming uh on the horizon these two um conferences at the end of May at the end of April and beginning of May uh will be a lot of fun we'll probably have a chance to sit down and talk and share a meal and again we would invite our audience to come by Healthicity's booth at both conferences and come say hello see what what services we might be able to offer and and help you manage the compliance and auditing programs within your organizations.

CJ Wolf: 25:44

Yeah we'd love to have you stop us and and say hi. So if you see a bald guy who's reflecting light off of his head and if you see a handsome guy with a very you know beautiful beard and mustache stop him and say hey I listen to your podcast we love what you do or tell us what you'd like to hear and and other other things you'd like to know more about. So thanks for listening everybody uh and we hope you enjoy the conferences uh this year as well uh until next time take care everyone thank